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Joe Biden

2008-08-25 14:31:18.155215+00 by Dan Lyke 26 comments

One of the things that political coalition building involves is bringing together disparate points of view. In practice, this often means putting two politicians on the same ticket who are as offensive as possible to my sensibilities while still making me think that they're better than the alternative.

If this is the measure of political acumen, Barack Obama[Wiki] has hit it out of the park by choosing Joe Biden[Wiki] as his running mate. Declan McCullagh provides a list of reasons that adding Biden to the Obama ticket is almost enough to make me reconsider the other side.

[ related topics: Politics Sociology Current Events ]

comments in ascending chronological order (reverse):

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-25 19:23:56.349017+00 by: Larry Burton

About the only difference between McCain and Biden on technology issues is their stances on encryption. McCain did sponsor a bill back in 1999 (S.798) that allowed for stronger encryption keys to be exported and prohibit federal regulations from requiring backdoors or passkeys for encryption products.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-25 20:57:58.288547+00 by: ziffle [edit history]

Excellent article. Fascism comes in small pieces, step by step, enabled by those who choose to support range of the moment, unethical solutions.

For the record:

Along with most of his colleagues in the Congress -- including Sen. John McCain but not Rep. Ron Paul -- Biden voted for the Patriot Act and the Real ID Act (which was part of a larger spending bill). Obama voted for the bill containing the Real ID Act, but wasn't in the U.S. Senate in 2001 when the original Patriot Act vote took place.

I thought Obama was down after Putin invaded Georgia, as that put the whole worlds antennas up; I laughed when I heard he selected Joe Biden, of all people as his VP. This seals his fate. He will now lose.

In his heart he wants to be Joe Biden; smooth, "liberal-cool", great teeth, and White. What he has done though is sell his soul and I will be glad to see him dumped ten minutes after he loses the election.

Mayberry is not ready for these modern day dictators.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-25 22:53:10.114121+00 by: JT

In his heart he wants to be Joe Biden; smooth, "liberal-cool", great teeth, and White.

Wow ziffle, just wow. I really hope you're playing "internet tuff guy" and you really don't act and speak this way in public. Claiming that any powerful black man just wants to be white is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in quite some time.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-25 23:19:19.451365+00 by: ziffle [edit history]

Wow JT - get real... if the truth touches race you get all down about it. Except for political correctness which you seem to dwell in, you could see he he is a slimy Marxist white wanna be dictator.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-26 00:08:48.948977+00 by: Mark A. Hershberger

you could see he he is a slimy Marxist white wanna be dictator.

Elide "Marxist" and "wanna be" and you'll describe McCain and Bush as well.

And I'm not sure that "Marxist" describes Obama any better than it describes Hugo Chavez. That, nor "wanna be" or "slimy". But perhaps I'm just reacting to what feels like hyperbole.

I do think "wanna be dictator" describes most of them, though.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-26 01:29:32.974039+00 by: ziffle

Obama scorns founders’ vision of freedom

When Barack Obama accepts the Democratic nomination later this week, he will portray himself as a shining example of the Great American Dream. With his impressive rhetorical skill, he will speak of embracing America’s common ideals and securing them for future generations and continuing on that glorious path established by our founding fathers, yada, yada. And he won’t mean a word of it.

Mark: agree about Bush and McCain but neither of them understand ideas like Obama does. He knows exactly what he is doing and that makes it important to stop him at all costs. But I won't vote for McCain either.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-26 03:15:25.675044+00 by: ziffle [edit history]

please delete this

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-26 13:24:19.159576+00 by: JT

Political correctness has nothing to do with claiming that someone wants to be white because they're in a position of power. Why do you think anyone else would actually want to be white? I'm quite proud of who I am, and no matter what position I've held in my life, I've never wanted to change races. What would make you assume that he wants to become white at this point? I'm over the initial shock of the comment, my questions are now fueled by pure morbid curiosity.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-26 13:46:53.838099+00 by: Dan Lyke

And I, for one, see nothing wrong with wanting to adopt some of the attributes of the successful dominant culture in which I live.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-26 13:51:29.303144+00 by: JT

I see your point Dan, but there's a difference between adopting characteristics of a dominant culture and wanting to become that culture. I'd be just as curious about someone saying that just because a woman wanted to be in the military, fire department, or police department that she wanted to be a man because of her job choice.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-26 14:00:34.300255+00 by: ziffle

Finally someone steps up and asks: Is Obama an American at all?

JT I am sure most people are very happy with who they are, but Obama wants what he is not in my opinion. Its a sign to me of anger - smart, angry, smooth. He picks Biden - I am not a specialist in politics but Biden? Why not Hillary? I think its appearances over character.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-26 14:03:39.608196+00 by: Dan Lyke [edit history]

JT, I think we're in agreement. I see nothing wrong in Barack Obama[Wiki] "... wanting to be ... White" (although I do wonder about Michael Jackson[Wiki] ), but phrasing it that way sounds to me like saying that a woman who wants to be in the police, or a construction worker (or an Indian or a cowboy...) "...wants to be a man".

Addendum: Except for these... uh... guys.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-26 14:11:28.300407+00 by: ziffle

In the abstract it really has nothing to do with race, its really about wanting to be what you are not - in other words comfortable with who you are. I dont like McCain but you do get the sense he is comfortable with who he is. I feel that aspect makes for better decisions.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-26 17:34:46.689294+00 by: JT

Thank you ziffle, on explanation it's a lot clearer now. Without your explanation, the original statement seemed much different.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-27 20:56:50.467799+00 by: mvandewettering

I'm curious about one thing: if after reading this article on Biden (who I think essentially corrupt in the way that far too many politicians on both side of the fence are) just what do you think the alternative is? It's not like the McCain ticket really strike me as saavy with respect to any of the issues raised in the article.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-27 22:16:57.331454+00 by: spc476

I'm not really concerned about the outcome of this election because as I see it, there's gridlock no matter how the election comes out. Republican President and Democratic Congress? No question. Democratic President and Republican Congress? Again, no question. Republican President and Congress? The Republicans aren't all that happy with McCain, so there will be some gridlock there. Democratic President and Congress? The Democratic Party itself is split between the Obamamamas and the Hilliarites and that itself will lead to gridlock.

I'm happy all around.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-29 16:17:36.586521+00 by: JT

I wonder how many voters McCain will now win over choosing Sarah Palin as is running mate. A younger woman with a bit broader appeal than "old white guy"

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-29 18:41:40.413644+00 by: meuon

McCain went looking.. and apparently looked hard and with an open mind (or convincing consultants).

I was looking for a change in the Presidency, politics. Obama was it even if I didn't like or trust him personally. Obama + Biden was much less change. A conservative fundy old war hero picking Mrs. Palin as potential VP, knowing she's "a heartbeat away from being President", currently defines change in America. Even if it was purely a political move.. it was a darn good one.

Now for the fireworks. It's gonna be a show.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-29 21:15:30.118099+00 by: Diane Reese

A darn good move? When a completely unqualified newcomer is "a heartbeat away from being President"? No way, no how, no McCain. (You should pardon the expression.) Small anecdotal sample though it is, this move has convinced 3 people I've spoken with today who were considering voting for McCain that his judgement cannot be trusted, and he's lost those 3 votes.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-29 22:03:48.906186+00 by: spc476

Let's see, Sarah Palin has been in the public sector since 1992, and governor of Alaska since 2006. Barack Obama has been in the public sector since 1997, and a Senator since 2004 (and spent the majority of that campaigning). If he's qualified, so is she.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-29 23:21:08.225251+00 by: topspin

I think the winner here is Mitt Romney who avoids possibly being part of a losing ticket and can position himself for 2012.

While it might not completely alienate southern, hardcore fundamentalists, there's some resistance, I'm sure, to a woman usurping a position of power over men. The traditions of I Tim 2:11-12 are actually still alive in places (including my Dad's Church of Christ congregation where women are not welcome to participate publicly in services.) Further, there will be those who question whether a woman with a 5 month old child should be campaigning, likely without that special needs child.

I'm willing to let this virtual unknown present herself before assuming she's not qualified, but I betcha Biden is salivating over any potential debate opportunity.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-29 23:39:41.734149+00 by: Dan Lyke

Sarah Palin is anti-abortion, and if she's not actively a creationist she's still politically pragmatic enough to insist that creationism get taught along side evolution in schools, so with that she fails two of my litmus tests. And she's from Alaska, a state with an amazing reputation for political integrity.

I think as a tactical move, this is a brilliant choice, it takes all the wind out of the Democratic convention, you'll notice the discussion is all about McCain-Palin, Barack Obama's speech has already fallen right off the front pages, but I think Topspin's got it right about Mitt Romney.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-30 02:30:11.170911+00 by: meuon

The anti-abortion thing is an issue with Nancy, and Palin's fundy bent is enough to be an issue with me. I haven't got a well defined litmus test like Dan. My question comes down to who do I trust to do the right thing. It's a sliding scale as applied to politics, but I'd like to believe the right person will vote or apply political force to do the right thing for society - even when it's contrary to personal beliefs. I know I'm delusional, but it's what I want to believe.

I don't know much about Palin at all, but she reads well so far, even knowing it's all well massaged media factoids. She's a good choice, offsets a lot of McCain's issues.

So, the power players 2 cards on the table, face up. Let's see how the rest of their hands play out. Like I said, it's gonna be a good show.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-30 10:53:18.295253+00 by: Larry Burton

I like the choice just for the entertainment value. An old, experienced, likable but not necessarily charismatic white guy is up against a young, inexperienced charismatic black guy who just defeated an older, inexperienced white woman for the office of president. The young, inexperienced black guy picks an old, experienced likable but not charismatic white guy for a running mate. Obama basically chose a "McCain" for a running mate. Who else should McCain have chosen other than a young, inexperienced, good-looking woman?

I don't want either Obama or McCain to be president but that's the two choices I'm stuck with. I might as well be amused by the process.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-08-30 21:07:58.168558+00 by: spc476

No you're not. And if this paper is accurate, then Cynthia McKinney will win.

#Comment Re: made: 2008-09-02 02:10:30.546701+00 by: Larry Burton

Regardless of how many people are running for the office of President of the United States, either Obama or McCain will be the winner. Even so, living in Georgia my only other choice is Bob Barr. He isn't acceptable to me even as a protest vote.