Flutterby™! : Pym Fortuyn 2002-05-08 15:35:22+00

Pym Fortuyn

2002-05-08 15:35:22+00 by Dan Lyke 15 comments

More reasons I'm fed up with "journalism". Dutch politician Pym Fortuyn was shot and killed. Fortuyn was described in the U.S. (and bits of Canadian that I get) press as a "hard right-winger", a "Dutch le Pen".

Fortuyn's platform seemed out of place in the Netherlands, which has a reputation for liberalism. It was the first country to legalize gay marriages, regulate prostitution, approve and control euthanasia, and tolerate the over-the-counter sale of marijuana in hundreds of "coffee shops."

So far as I can tell, Fortuyn was in favor of all of these things, and a raving communist besides. The thing that earned him the label "right wing" was pointing out Islam thinks very poorly of homosexuals like himself, and that Muslim cultures tend to treat woemn very badly. He also noted that the Netherlands are overpopulated. And for this he's tossed into the same camp as Pat Buchanan? Adam Curry follows the story from a Dutch resident's perspective.

I don't know if Dylan's still reading this, but can we get an opinion on a genre for Nirvana

I don't know about 'Communist'. I only know what I have read, but so far as I can tell Pym Fortuyn seems to fall somewhere between 'Libertarian-Socialist' and 'Anarcho-Syndicalist' in most of his political stances. I certainly agree that calling him 'Right-Wing' is an example of how bad the news media really is. Of course, why consign to conspiracy that which may more easily be blamed on stupidity...

I do think that Fortuyn's point about 'backwards cultures' is one that causes 'Progressives' to shudder. When you make cultural relativism one of the main pillars of your belief system you must then constantly turn a blind eye to the fact that some cultures just plain suck (or are at least anti-everything-you-believe-in). And you certainly won't like it when someone rubs your nose in this fact. Fortuyn did that. It probably made Liberals very uncomfortable, because honestly dealing with what he he had to say required them to think instead of shouting slogans...

The way I figure things, cultural relativism only applies to cultures advanced enough to share it as a value. But when the culture does not believe in 'live-and-let-live', does not share values of liberty and equality, and does not allow its members to change cultures for a better life, well... They are backward and should be seen as such. As to what you do with that knowledge, I need to think a lot more before I can say.

"Grunge" is probably a fair description, especially as the term is used in the mainstream press.

I always thought of grunge as a subgenre of pop, but maybe I'm back-projecting...

I've always considered "grunge" to be an offshoot of heavy metal, by way of "alternative" (as the term was used before it was repurposed as an synonym for "top 40"). But then again, I was never really a punk, goth, shoe-gazer, hair farmer, or member of any other sub-culture classified partially or primarily on music preference.

(Okay, I maybe coulda been an indie-rawk kid, but I never really had enough horizontally-stripped sweaters to qualify.)

A small.. but sensetive detail in Dan Lyke's orriginal article... the word "communist".

Pim Fortuyn was a marxist, years ago... back then he was active in the "PvdA" political party (dutch socialists, 'labor' party).

In this context, I think Dan means "Collumnist". Pim wrote articles for several magazines and newspapers in Holland over the past years. That's where it all started.

I don't know that I'd call Sonic Youth "punk"; I certainly

wouldn't call Dino Jr. "punk". The Ramones were punk, sure, but Babes in Toyland (if it's the band I'm thinking of) were sort of fringy metal/alternative -- not really what I would call "punk" either.

I mean, if you lump all those bands into "punk", "punk" pretty much loses any use as a distinguishing term. Superchunk would be "punk". Alice in Chains would be "punk". Hell, Motley Crue would be "punk".

Actually, I should have been more specific, I did mean Marxist. Blame it on the U.S. press's distortions [grin]. Although from my libertarian perspective calling almost any politician is a safe bet.

But in terms of what little I can glean of his current politics, I think he was probably a better candidate than many of those I've held my nose and voted for. Speaking of which, the Governor's race in California is going to be very, very ugly.

why do you believe mr. curry more than the media? mr. curry is biased since he openly applied to become a member of pim's party. (http:// www.linklust.com/?comments=432)

Pete: maybe; I'm admittedly not terribly familiar with Babes in Toyland, and it's very possible I'm mixing them up with some late 80s hair band.

While driving home from work, I realized that part of my confusion with calling bands "punk" is because the word is overloaded, very similar to the way "Jewish" is overloaded. When you say someone is "Jewish", you can be refering to their religious beliefs, or to their ethnicity. Similarly, when you say a band is "punk", you can be talking about the style of music they produce, or about their general aesthetic.

el punzatore, I believe Mr. Curry more than the media because he agrees with every Dutch person I've heard interviewed so far on the matter. And because the U.S. media is gradually coming around to report the things that Adam Curry has been saying.

John, makes perfect sense to me. I'm not sure where bands like Green Day, which came from punk roots, but really always wanted to be a pop band, fit in.

Just to further digress, there's more on Babes in Toyland on TCPunk, and for what it's worth, in the 80's they were part of the punk scene here in Minneapolis.