Flutterby™! : Campaign Tactics

Next unread comment / Catchup all unread comments User Account Info | Logout | XML/Pilot/etc versions | Long version (with comments) | Weblog archives | Site Map | | Browse Topics

Campaign Tactics

2016-09-16 16:21:09.041496+00 by Dan Lyke 12 comments

Catching up here. Shadow forwarded along Trump’s Tactics and Hillary’s Persuasion Game (Scott Adams Interview) on The Rubin Report (YouTube), and I've been thinking about it a lot.

I'm listening to it again, and I'm in the discussion about "low energy" about 5 minutes in and thinking about Trump's attempting to make Hillary's health an issue, and... yeah, this is an interesting tactic.

I know a few people who are Trump supporters, and I've been thinking about how to make the "not Trump" case, and I realized a couple of things: With Hillary Clinton being painted as an establishment candidate, if you're a "non-establishment" voter, like Trump or Sanders supporters, then news like Harvard researchers being paid off by the sugar industry reinforce the anti-establishment feel.

It's also fascinating since both Clinton and Trump have staked out the authoritarian axis, that they're having to explore other axes of voter division.

I'm also now more conscious of a few more of the places where I'm susceptible to some of the techniques they're talking about.

The discussion about "pacing and leading" is fascinating in terms of why I don't like many candidates, and is causing some introspection about the ones I do like.

[ related topics: Interactive Drama Politics Games Health Movies Law Current Events Pop Culture Community Archival ]

comments in ascending chronological order (reverse):

#Comment Re: Campaign Tactics made: 2016-09-17 11:57:23.182592+00 by: stevesh

'Not Trump' will be a tough sell for most of us who are going to vote for him, because what we really are is 'anybody but Clinton'.

#Comment Re: Campaign Tactics made: 2016-09-17 22:57:53.279464+00 by: TheSHAD0W

I think Trump isn't as bad as MSM is painting him, but still bad.

I think Hillary is much worse than MSM is painting her.

Ain't gonna vote for neither.

#Comment Re: Campaign Tactics made: 2016-09-18 04:01:44.490171+00 by: Dan Lyke

stevesh, any chance you'd talk a little bit about what it is that draws you to him? Obviously I'm not a fan, but I'm interested in understanding.

#Comment Re: Campaign Tactics made: 2016-09-18 11:46:54.059888+00 by: stevesh

There's almost nothing that draws me to Trump (though I am convinced we need to actually enforce our immigration laws, or abolish them) except the fact that he isn't Hillary Clinton. The Clintons epitomize everything that's wrong with American politics (and culture, for that matter), and though I think Barack Obama is the worst president of my lifetime, I would gladly vote for a third Obama term than for the Clintons. Gary Johnson creeps me out for some reason, and I was looking at Jill Stein (despite the fact that our politics don't match up much) until her surprising failure of judgement in the bulldozer incident. So, nose firmly held, it's Trump for me.

#Comment Re: Campaign Tactics made: 2016-09-18 16:30:23.536541+00 by: Dan Lyke


With you on Stein, since long before the bulldozer incident. Her vaccine statements have just been completely whack.

Interested in why you think Obama has been the worst president of your lifetime. I've been somewhat disappointed in him, although I think some of that is what he's had to work with in the Legislature, but what brings him to "worst president" status?

#Comment Re: Campaign Tactics made: 2016-09-19 00:59:14.748723+00 by: stevesh

My description of President Obama as the worst in my lifetime stems mainly from his lies to advance the passage of the ACA (see how many insurers are abandoning their participation because they can't make money, something those of us who opposed it predicted).and his 'negotiation' of the 'Iran deal', which only serves to guarantee that Iran will have nuclear weapons in ten years, if not sooner ( I should say I'm a strong supporter of Israel)..His world 'apology tours' didn't help, either.

I'm sorry I can't explain Trump's appeal completely, since I don't really understand it, either. I think that one thing that drives it is the idea that, for the first time in my voting lifetime, the Republican candidate isn't some stiff presented to Republican voters as the candidate because it's 'his turn'. Dole and McCain? Please.

I'm a Tea Party Republican (the real Tea Party, not the sexist. racist, homophobic fiction from the fevered imagination of the Left) and all I want is a candidate who will work to lower taxes, reduce the power and influence of government (especially the federal government, and especially un-elected bureaucrats) on the lives of American citizens. Someone who understands and reveres the Constitution would be awesome, too.

I'm mostly libertarian on social issues (which means my opinions probably look a lot like yours). I want the government (all governments, but the closer to the People,the more validity they have, IMO) to stay out of my bedroom, wedding chapel (or secular equivalent) and my right to self-medicate and to defend myself and my family. Seems so simple to me.

I enjoy your blog, and would be interested in your opinion of the above.


#Comment Re: Campaign Tactics made: 2016-09-19 15:49:17.955579+00 by: Dan Lyke

I'm interested in understanding, and every time this sort of conversation comes up on other social media it's someone asking "Trump supporters, tell me why you support him?" and a gazillion Trump haters piping up with reasons they hate Trump.

So I have some gut feelings about the issues that you raise, Iran and the ACA, but I suspect we'd just be talking past each other, which is why I really just want to listen.

My conversion from hardcore Objectivist and Libertarian came in a couple of stages, but one of those stages involved someone on the left who had done enough introspection about their political beliefs to, when faced with the "don't you want to minimize violence in human interactions?" argument was able to come back with the observation that violence in human interactions was inevitable. That opened the crack in my beliefs enough that I could start to look at externalities and population densities and say "huh, yeah, it is." And I've derived a new set of political beliefs based on some pragmatic shit that stems kinda from that.

But as long as I presented my beliefs as "I want to minimize violence in human interactions", and I came up against lefty Democrats who said "oh, yeah, violence is bad", I couldn't have a discussion that didn't start "well, how does anything other than Libertarianism follow from that premise?"

I still think most of those folks haven't thought through their political premises well (and yes, some of them have polisci or philosophy degrees, they're just not very good at reasoning).

Realizing this, I've decided that I really need to find ways to listen more to why people believe what they do, and usually those driving factors are very different from where we stand on policy.

Which is 6 paragraphs of "I'd rather shut up and listen".

#Comment Re: Campaign Tactics made: 2016-09-20 01:44:39.925953+00 by: spc476

You know, if enough people vote third party, it's conceivable that neither Clinton nor Trump will get 270 electoral votes. Then it's up to Congress ...

I think the appeal of Trump is that he's not politically correct, he's not polished, and he's expressing concerns that a lot of people in "Fly Over Country" have. Those that live in "Fly Over Country" are probably tired of the current crop of Washingtonians ignoring them and bascially, treating them like they don't exist (or even count as people).

Does that make "Fly Over Country" people racists? I don't think so. I think they're just tired of the same old political elite and want things shaken up in Washington. Or at the very least, make their presence known.

I have one friend on the far left that has a literal hatred of Kansas for being backwards. The way he goes on you'd think he was in prison there for most of his life but no, he grew up on the East coast, and now lives on the west coast, making him one of those bi-coastal elites that feel they know best how those in Kansas should live. I'm sure people like that also contribute to the Trump phenomenon (I'm sorry, but I can't hear that word without that song starting up in my head).

#Comment Re: Campaign Tactics made: 2016-09-27 15:56:37.822857+00 by: Dan Lyke

In the same vein: Scott Adams on Trump's African-American reframing.

#Comment Re: Campaign Tactics made: 2016-09-29 11:31:32.988741+00 by: TheSHAD0W

Aaaaand now Scott Adams officially endorses Trump.


Let's hope he doesn't wind up accidentally committing suicide by shooting himself in the back seven times.

#Comment Re: Campaign Tactics made: 2016-09-29 20:44:09.690612+00 by: Dan Lyke

So Adams is a monarchist. Okay.

#Comment Re: Campaign Tactics made: 2016-11-03 06:58:53.607289+00 by: spc476

Interesting article about Trump voters: In the Heart of Trump Country.

Add your own comment:

(If anyone ever actually uses Webmention/indie-action to post here, please email me)

Format with:

(You should probably use "Text" mode: URLs will be mostly recognized and linked, _underscore quoted_ text is looked up in a glossary, _underscore quoted_ (http://xyz.pdq) becomes a link, without the link in the parenthesis it becomes a <cite> tag. All <cite>ed text will point to the Flutterby knowledge base. Two enters (ie: a blank line) gets you a new paragraph, special treatment for paragraphs that are manually indented or start with "#" (as in "#include" or "#!/usr/bin/perl"), "/* " or ">" (as in a quoted message) or look like lists, or within a paragraph you can use a number of HTML tags:

p, img, br, hr, a, sub, sup, tt, i, b, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, cite, em, strong, code, samp, kbd, pre, blockquote, address, ol, dl, ul, dt, dd, li, dir, menu, table, tr, td, th

Comment policy

We will not edit your comments. However, we may delete your comments, or cause them to be hidden behind another link, if we feel they detract from the conversation. Commercial plugs are fine, if they are relevant to the conversation, and if you don't try to pretend to be a consumer. Annoying endorsements will be deleted if you're lucky, if you're not a whole bunch of people smarter and more articulate than you will ridicule you, and we will leave such ridicule in place.

Flutterby™ is a trademark claimed by

Dan Lyke
for the web publications at www.flutterby.com and www.flutterby.net.