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On supporting Bernie

2016-04-22 20:50:14.742408+00 by Dan Lyke 9 comments

A rant I left in the Facebook comments to a friend who posted https://storify.com/zatchry/th...electoral-left-between-sanders-c

So I've been a conditional Sanders supporter: I'll consider voting for him as long as I think he can't really win, because I think that'd be disastrous for the 2020 Presidential elections. With that background, I see a few flaws in Giordano's argument:

  1. The whole HRC (Human Rights Campaign) mismanagement of the Prop 8 situation here in California shows that you need radicals to shift the Overton window. We don't get change by trying to "pass". Dismissing a group as "overwhelmingly defined by a history of failed activist ventures" is dismissing the broadening of possibilities very valuable work that those activists provide.
  2. Worse than dismissing the people who are opening up possibilities, he's dismissing the people who keep trying. Yeah, you can win. If you play their game to their goals.
  3. I also know enough people of color who are Bernie supporters that I'm not totally buying the "rural white male crossover are the only supporters Bernie's got" narrative.

Now I do totally agree with him that "The idea that there is some super woke majority out there waiting to lay siege to the palace is an overwhelmingly white delusion." But it's hella useful to leverage that delusion. Sanders is gonna be the top Democrat on the Budget Committee. Leverage that with the base of crossover voters he's attracted, voters who might otherwise have abstained or vote Republican in November, and suddenly he's playing a different game.

And if he drops out now, he loses the mindshare of those people. If he runs through, he may end up coming out of this with a decent sized political block.

So, yes, it's great that people want to be all "ra ra Hillary". I'll vote for her come November because reproductive freedoms trump everything, and no Republican is going to do better on the policy issues I disagree with her over (1st Amendment issues, cryptography and law enforcement issues, foreign policy). But let's be playing the long game here.

[ related topics: Interactive Drama Politics Privacy Games Free Speech moron Work, productivity and environment Law Enforcement Television Civil Liberties California Culture Cryptography Race ]

comments in ascending chronological order (reverse):

#Comment Re: On supporting Bernie made: 2016-04-22 21:59:23.907345+00 by: dori [edit history]

Just my 2 cents...

You wrote: "Sanders is gonna be the top Democrat on the Budget Committee." This is unlikely, imo, for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, because up until the last year or so (when it became useful to him), Sanders has made it clear that he's not a Democrat. He may caucus with them, but he's a Socialist/Independent. There's no reason to think that he'll remain a Democrat post-convention.

Secondly, if he stays on the path he's currently on--which his surrogates have said he will--where he's pushing Republican talking points, there's every reason to suspect that Chuck Schumer will decide to strip him of all or most committee assignments. If the current projections hold true, there's going to be a lot of brand-new Democratic senators looking for good committee assignments, and Majority Leader Schumer will owe Sanders nothing.

Personally, I like that Bernie has moved Hillary to the left, but doing the Republican party's dirty work for them does the left no favors.

#Comment Re: On supporting Bernie made: 2016-04-22 22:34:47.055477+00 by: clayh

(I am not on twitter, so my comments only fall here.) Well, I support Bernie. And I easily admit my lack of social grace. And I have some years of frustration from the way things are done. But please do not tell me to work on whatever it is AlGiordano thinks that I lack. I have too many other things to get done, I do not need AlGiordano to give me another job. And I see social negotiation and such as part of the problem. I think we need studies and experiments instead of persuasion and opinions.

I think that we need to see how a base minimum income would play out. I think we need to see what happens if cities only enforce the crimes their tax base antes up for, instead of taking their revenue from "criminals". I think rich and poor alike equally value their time, so time served is the only fair penalty for a crime -- Maybe a half hour for running a stop sign, served in the officer's back seat since there is no time to get you downtown. And on and on for days. (I did suggest early on to his team that our infrastructure needs rethinking rather than rebuilding. Any solid ideas on that, Dan ?)

So I kind of see Bernie as taking baby steps, although it is seriously important to take those steps. AlGiordano can say that I believe the game is rigged. I only note the continual evidence of fraud. I am sure that I have biases, but I am always looking for a better understanding. And I am certain that I am not part of some majority. So I guess I just do not get what AlGiordano is pushing. It sounds like the same old same old. I want to move forward and go back to that. Hillary says she can get things done but, like, I do not expect her to make enough progress on reproductive freedom to make it worth voting for her. (Bernie is not anti-choice but Hillary is pro-corruption and I should shut up already.) In the balance of issues I see Bernie way ahead of Hillary and plan to vote for him either by [X] or as a write-in.

#Comment Re: On supporting Bernie made: 2016-04-22 23:20:15.233908+00 by: Jack William Bell [edit history]

My problem: although I want to see the changes Bernie represents, I don't believe Bernie can produce any kind of useful results if he was to win the nomination AND the presidency; since he will be fighting both the Republicans in Congress and the 'Party Democrats' everywhere who see him as an outsider. A Sanders presidency will not be remembered well.

That said, I can't bring myself to vote for Clinton. Not only do I believe she actually is in the pockets of the bankers/big money folk, I fear (not as a possibility, but as an article of faith) she will lead us into yet another Middle East war. Maybe with a African 'Police Operation' or two on the side. I'm done with that. The USA is not the world's police man and our armed forces do not exist to ensure Standard Oil's profits.

Which leaves me what? Voting for the Republican nominee? There isn't a single one of them left I could stand to be in the same room with, much less pull a lever for. (Even Kasich.)

So where does that leave me?

#Comment Re: On supporting Bernie made: 2016-04-23 12:01:58.283328+00 by: stevesh [edit history]

It leaves you where most of the rest of us are, I think. I'm supporting Sanders mainly by default - none of the Republicans are showing me anything and the whole 'Stepford Wives for Hillary' thing creeps me out. (How could any intelligent person want that lying, corrupt woman to be president?)

As a one-time staunch Reaganite, I've come to understand that the ideas of trickle-down and supply-side are sad jokes in an oligarchy like we've allowed this country to become. Maybe it's time to try a little socialism.

#Comment Re: On supporting Bernie made: 2016-04-25 14:02:07.257841+00 by: Dan Lyke

The GOP is losing more, but both parties are hemorrhaging voters to independent ranks. I suspect that stripping Bernie of committee assignments would hurt the Democrats more than it'd hurt Bernie, and I think they know that.

And, yeah: I think there's a huge base of disaffected voters who aren't Tea Partiers, but want something that's orthogonal to the current authoritarian kleptocracy that defines the two modern parties. It remains to be seen whether that's going to happen by one of the major parties deciding to change course, or the Republicans turning themselves irrelevant and a third party springing up in the space they've left.

#Comment Re: On supporting Bernie made: 2016-05-07 10:44:49.462596+00 by: meuon

Bernie. It felt good voting FOR someone that might have a chance of becoming President. He's got weak spots (international politics) and seems to be cognizant of them. I feel the future of this country needs Bernie, or Bernie 2.0. A Clinton/Sanders ticket would be acceptable, but I'd really like to see Sanders as President and the Clinton Political Empire disarmed. More than anything else: Not Trump.

#Comment Re: On supporting Bernie made: 2016-05-09 21:16:39.595441+00 by: Mars Saxman


#Comment Re: On supporting Bernie made: 2016-05-10 14:31:48.323123+00 by: Dan Lyke

The thing about "Not Trump" is that, although Trump is a dangerous buffoon, I'm not sure Cruz was in any way a better option...

#Comment Re: On supporting Bernie made: 2016-05-10 15:39:05.939271+00 by: Larry Burton

I preferred Trump to Cruz. Trump may be crazy but he is a negotiator. Cruz proved he believed in suicide pacts.

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