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IE (aaiiieee)

2005-02-21 18:13:18.820159+00 by Dan Lyke 22 comments

Argh. So I tweaked the style sheet a bit because I hated the way that sometimes Firefox stretched the page right, and broke IE[Wiki]'s rendering. And then thought I had that fixed, but IE[Wiki] would, at some screen widths, not draw the top entry. So, anyway, I think we're once again back to a bad compromise. Sigh.

[ related topics: Web development ]

comments in ascending chronological order (reverse):

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-21 18:46:55.960856+00 by: meuon

Well.. I'm not seeing Verdana anymore, Is this a good thing?


Style sheets are about compromise.. Kinda of a .com promise.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-21 18:50:49.100128+00 by: Dan Lyke

Verdana appeared to be a part of the blowing away of the text. And I'm not happy with a serif font this small. I'm frankly not happy specifying size at all, but CSS is so freakin' braindead when it comes to relative sizes that...

Why, oh why, couldn't there have been someone who actually knew something about typesetting on that standards group?

And then, of course, we come to the question of why Microsoft[Wiki] feels it necessary to destroy interop whenever they can. I have some guesses in that direction though...

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-21 19:08:19.680089+00 by: Diane Reese

Aha, so THAT'S why the font keeps changing! I've gotta be honest, though: I can barely read it at this font size. I may be one of the more "senior" readers, but it causes me to have to tip my head a lot to adjust my bifocal distance, so if there's any way to increase the size some, that'd be swell.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-21 23:19:16.035246+00 by: Mars Saxman

I'm using Safari, and I still see the same great big serif fonts Flutterby started using a few days ago. It's really huge, maybe 14 or 15 point text.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-21 23:31:39.615994+00 by: Dan Lyke

Sigh. It should have started using non-serif fonts a few days ago, and started using a serif font yesterday. Font size should be 16px, which I'm fairly sure shouldn't be interpreted as pt. But I've just removed the size specifier, so hopefully we're back to something readable on everyone except that the side bars are now specified in pixels because no two browsers agreed on how wide an "em" was and I could never get the side bars a reasonable compromize with em specification.

I'm almost thinking it's time to go back to tables.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 01:47:29.176096+00 by: Larry Burton

Have you tried specifying the size in em? That solved a ton of my sizing problems when I switched to em.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 02:00:25.429352+00 by: Dan Lyke

Font size in em? That makes almost no sense, but I guess I could try.

div sizes in em give dramatically different results in the three browsers I could test with, I eventually had a compromise that kinda worked but it meant that I always had a slight horizontal scrollbar on Mozilla[Wiki] or Firefox[Wiki]. That's why I went to pixels.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 02:35:25.072442+00 by: Larry Burton

>> Font size in em? That makes almost no sense

Which means it makes some sense. ;) Em is a relative sizing while px is an absoulte size. Isn't it? Using em as a size specifier for text seems reasonable to me while specifying box sizes in em seems awkward.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 02:43:03.552294+00 by: Mars Saxman

Pixels = points on Mac OS, which draws graphics at a nominal 72 dpi. In any case, the text looks normal again.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 02:49:19.956486+00 by: Dan Lyke

Larry: Yeah, the sense it makes is that then every font would be relative to some base size. But really, "em" is a measure of horizontal size relative to a given font. Fonts with the same point size can have different "em" and "en" sizes, depending on the relative widths of their capital "M" and "N" characters.

Which means it makes perfect sense to specify box sizes in points, because then you can have side bars which, say, will generally be able to hold some number of average characters horizontally. Whereas if I specify it in pixel sizes, or even point sizes, if someone makes their personal base font larger my layout could become unreasonable.

But since font sizes are specified vertically, it takes someone who doesn't know typography to allow those two to mix.

Mars: I guess that makes sense.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 12:44:55.249535+00 by: meuon

Dan, I have been using a mixture of Tables and Div Tag/Style Sheets, testing across browsers and operating systems with some fairly consistent results. But you have to be very conservative and use fonts that exists on fairly basic installs. And of course, always end in Serif or Sans-Serif.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 12:44:59.527087+00 by: ziffle

would really like to see the link to voyuerweb again as I can't spell it...

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 14:47:27.805086+00 by: Shawn

Not sure what it's in reference to, but Voyeurweb is here.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 15:23:49.360833+00 by: meuon

And.. buyers-exclusively.com - A Real Estate Buyers Broker in Chattanooga and latest attempt at Tables and Style sheets. I'm addicted to mouse-overs/hover's.. I love them. And yes, this is using the CybrMall system, only Plugit is calling it 'ElectroMall'. There are at least 3 other companies using this thing..

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 15:39:42.916094+00 by: Dan Lyke

Over on the right I used to have an "other coolness" folder in my bookmarks file, and it got deleted and I didn't notice until now [grin].

Think I need to restructure that stuff.

#Comment FYI, meuon made: 2005-02-22 17:33:57.439843+00 by: baylink

that real estate site scrolls horizontally, just a touch, at 8x6 in FF1

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 19:11:52.778784+00 by: meuon

Thanks.. I'll try to cut the 800px graphic down to 750..

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 20:09:16.430311+00 by: petronius

Is there any system that can use this font?

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 20:27:15.179384+00 by: Dan Lyke

If it's installed on your system... Should just be able to do a:

font-family: "12 TO THE MOON";

Big issue is that there are only a few fonts you can rely upon being installed on a user's machine.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 21:25:48.472998+00 by: dws

Side note: my level of CSS grokitude notched up after reading Dan Cederholm's "Web Standards Solutions". He covers the trick needed to get IE to do sizes correctly.

#Comment Re: made: 2005-02-22 23:28:03.788157+00 by: polly

dan, it has been interesting as i look at flutterby each day after i come home to see what you've "done to it now?" i will admit, it was slightly distracting when the side bar blocked some of the topics so i was having to use context clues to figure out the missing words. NOW, i can SEE, lol.

can't wait to see what you change next!

#Comment dws and others made: 2005-02-23 00:34:29.146347+00 by: baylink

I had someone point me to http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/creep.html to try and determine why my weblog, at http://baylink.pitas.com has it's body grafs creep slowly to the left.

I can see that it probably can fix my problem, but I can't see where to apply it.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. The page and CSS layout came from OSWD.org; I'm not good enough to suss their internals.