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Perpetual Motion, Again?

2006-08-22 02:47:03.215662+00 by meuon 21 comments

One of my favorite books is a book on the history of Perpetual Motion Machines. The questions is, has it been achieved? Steorn claims to have "developed a technology that produces free, clean and constant energy." and is challenging the scientific community to prove them wrong.

While my logical mind says "Ha ha ha ha..." - I find myself wishing them luck.

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comments in ascending chronological order (reverse):

#Comment Re: made: 2006-08-22 15:32:13.013981+00 by: ziffle

I know - but I keep thinking there must be a way to keep magnets going around and around and drawing energy from that - but alas I am proven wrong so far - but I also think there is an aether - so in the end I think it is possible, and will be shown so, someday.

#Comment Re: made: 2006-08-22 16:30:57.820992+00 by: meuon

I'll loan you my book. It was a 'vanity publish' and I haven't found it for sale, but it's an amazing history of some of the biggest scams in history.

#Comment Re: made: 2006-08-22 23:27:03.715581+00 by: Dan Lyke

No matter how many times perpetual motion gets debunked, it just keeps coming back around...

If they really are patent pending, how come they don't just publish the patent application on the web site?

#Comment Re: made: 2006-08-23 01:19:36.824812+00 by: meuon

You can't een apply for a patent for a "Perpetual Motion Machine" in the USA.

#Comment Re: Perpetual Motion made: 2006-08-23 18:51:14.958473+00 by: andylyke [edit history]

What we used to do with claims like this is to say "call us when it's been running for 6 months". Never, ever heard back.

#Comment Re: made: 2006-08-24 15:58:29.677068+00 by: petronius

Meuon: I have heard that you can in fact apply for a US patent on a PMM. However, unlike most patents you will have to provide a working model for the Patent office to study. Most of these barnyard inventors trying to patent the things really don't want to do an independent domo until the checks clear at their bank in the Caymans.

Salon has a cute piece about a guy trying to get an update on a purported technique for extracting petroleum from algae. He never gets the update, but has fun in the digressions the search engenders.

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-04 19:11:46.279916+00 by: meuon [edit history]

According to: EnGadget, our friends at Steorn may be releasing video and detailed info about their breakthroughs, that now is named "Orbo Free Energy Technology".

Somehow, my investment in solar panels for the groove trailer still seems safe.

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-04 21:17:09.874862+00 by: ebradway

They are supposed to be giving a live demo someplace at 6pm EST with video on the web...

Until then, we can enjoy Steornian Rhapsody!

BTW, maybe I'm missing something but rare-earth magnets are just that - rare-earth. Materials don't become permanent magnets (not really "permanent" but long-lived) without some energy input. I really doubt that this is a real Perpetual Motion Machine. Rather, it's likely a highly efficient machine.

Oh yeah, magnetism decrease with temperature in permanent magnets. So in order for this to work, any temperature increase due to friction has to be well-managed.

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-04 22:07:11.034987+00 by: ebradway

Due to technical difficulties we will now be live from the 5th July.

Oh well... Maybe it's the Perpetual Delay Machine!

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-04 23:35:21.495619+00 by: jeff

Aren't we all ultimately trapped by the 2nd law of thermodynamics?

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-05 13:39:44.169312+00 by: ebradway

We are experiencing some technical difficulties with the demo unit in London. Our initial assessment indicates that this is probably due to the intense heat from the camera lighting.

RE: my comment about about temperature increses...

And Jeff: Yeah, the idea is they found a loophole in the first law of thermodynamics.

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-05 13:44:11.320576+00 by: ebradway

Hey! You can view a webcam of the Orbo:


#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-05 19:43:01.405556+00 by: spc476

I'm having a hard time stiffling my giggles as the webcam seems to be down yet again, due to technical difficulties.

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-05 20:27:39.108176+00 by: Dan Lyke

I'm guessing that flight to some place with really complex extradition laws was delayed, so they had to stall for a little more time...

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-06 15:29:36.448935+00 by: Dan Lyke


If we could harness all the brain power expended on this subject over the years we could toast bread. Lightly.

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-06 18:26:48.231635+00 by: ebradway

I wonder if the issue is that the machine "works" if you cool the room adequately (i.e., use 1000x the energy to remove heat from the room as the machine actually generates)...

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-06 18:40:20.961052+00 by: Dan Lyke

As I've seen some other speculation that the device is light powered, and the "we're having so much trouble making it work in these circumstances" is merely misdirection so that when it runs off the obvious energy source they can say "isn't this amazing?"

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-06 18:50:14.980966+00 by: jeff

The device only works at -459 degrees F. <grin>

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-06 21:06:48.580948+00 by: Dan Lyke

Over at Respectful Insolence there's an entry which quotes from and links to the Intelligent Design wackos latching on to this one:

Steorn's findings totally undermine the basic premise of materialism, simply by demonstrating a confirmed physical effect that materialists predict cannot happen. These clever Irish researchers have demonstrated that the principles of thermodynamics function in a manner far closer to the predictions of William Dembski and William Brookfield than the clearly flawed thermodynamic claims of Hawkings and Maxwell.

The same scientists who tell you that Intelligent Design is impossible also dispute the hard-facts of Steorn's peer-reviewed findings. I predict that this humble contraption will show the world just how much materialists have misled mainstream-science.

And, from further down in the comments:

Great article; This is perhaps the best physical evidence I have ever seen against the absurd assumptions of materialism. The materialists are utterly convinced that "free energy" is impossible, but they have totally ignored well documented evidence of miracles (e.g. walking on water, reviving the dead).


#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-06 21:31:16.327585+00 by: meuon

I believe in "miracles". I believe in "karmic confluence". I believe that Steorn may have pushed the limits of "perpetual motion machines". Heck, I even choose to believe in Santa Claus: it's a choice: a leap of faith and belief into what I wish the world really is capable of.

But Steorn's pushing the limits of Perpetual Motion Machines, does not disprove that the material world, which some believe is only energy and in our mind, is also not scientifically consistent and logical. Yet.

I hope the investors have enjoyed the ride.... at least they'll be able to say: "What a ride!".

The video page now says:

"the technical difficulties experienced during the installation of its "Orbo" technology at the Kinentica Museum in London, Steorn has decided to postpone the demonstration until further notice."

I'm guessing they couldn't hide the real power source... compressed air, emf.. whatever.

#Comment Re: made: 2007-07-07 14:21:28.839103+00 by: ebradway

It's too early in the morning - but I should read the ID Wacko article. The quotes just have me confused...

By possibly showing there are some errors in existing physical theory, we are proving that God exists?

The logical foundation is that the naysayers are "the same scientists who tell you that Intelligent Design is impossible". But aren't these scientists what one calls skeptics